Ana Karina Gonzalez Huenchuñir; Luis Alberto Bustamante Robin; Jose Guillermo Gonzalez Cornejo; Jennifer Angelica Ponce Ponce; Francia Carolina Vera Valdes; Carolina Ivonne Reyes Candia; Mario Alberto Correa Manríquez; Enrique Alejandro Valenzuela Erazo; Gardo Francisco Valencia Avaria; Alvaro Gonzalo Andaur Medina; Carla Veronica Barrientos Melendez; Luis Alberto Cortés Aguilera; Ricardo Adolfo Price Toro; Julio César Gil Saladrina; Ivette Renee Mourguet Besoain; Marcelo Andres Oyarse Reyes; Franco Gonzalez Fortunatti; Patricio Ernesto Hernández Jara; Demetrio Protopsaltis Palma;Nelson Gonzalez Urra ; Ricardo Matias Heredia Sanchez; Alamiro Fernandez Acevedo; Soledad García Nannig; Paula Flores Vargas;
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Sir Charles Willie Mathews, primer baronet. |
By the LORD CHIEF JUSTICE Do you mean it was in April that you got the mangolds instead of potatoes? Yes. By Mr. SULLIVAN Was the reduction in rations universal through the whole camp? To the British prisoners' camp? Yes. Did the reduction of rations apply to every one who was left in the camp? Yes, to everybody who was left, of British prisoners, but there were Russians and French. There may be a difference; are you not an Irishman? There were Russians and French there as well. At all events, the rations were universal? To the British, but the French rations were not reduced. And the Russians ? I do not know Russian. I could not speak to them. You had refused to join this Irish Brigade? Certainly. At the outset, in January? Yes. There was no doubt or question about that? No, but I was marched up to the French lines every fortnight to know whether I would join. It was clear from the start that you were not going to join? Quite dear. | Por el SEÑOR JUSTICIA PRINCIPAL ¿Quieres decir que era en abril que tienes los mangolds en lugar de papas? Sí. Por el Sr. SULLIVAN ¿La reducción de las raciones fue universal a través del todo el campamento? ¿Al campo de prisioneros británicos? Sí. ¿La reducción de raciones se aplicaba a todos los que quedaban? ¿en el campamento? Sí, a todos los que quedaban, de prisioneros británicos, pero había rusos y franceses. Puede haber una diferencia; ¿No eres irlandés?Había Rusos y franceses allí también. En todo caso, ¿las raciones eran universales?Para los británicos, pero el Las raciones francesas no se redujeron. ¿Y los rusos? No sé ruso. No pude hablar con ellos. ¿Te has negado a unirte a esta brigada irlandesa? Ciertamente. Al principio, en enero? Sí. ¿No había dudas o preguntas al respecto? No, pero fui marchado hasta las líneas francesas cada quince días para saber si me uniría. ¿Estaba claro desde el principio que no te ibas a unir? Bastante querido.
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By Mr. JUSTICE HOEBIDGE I understood you to say they kept on trying at you, and marched you up to the French lines every fortnight? Yes, till the day I left. | Por el Sr. JUSTICE HOEBIDGE, entendí que dijera que seguían
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By Mr. SULLIVAN Up to the day you left, in February, 1916? Yes. Did the men who did join leave that camp and go away? They did, and they came back in uniform. And went away again, I suppose? They were there now and then in the camp. | Por el Sr. SULLIVAN ¿Hasta el día que te fuiste, en febrero de 1916? Sí.
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Re-examined by the ATTORNEY- GENERAL When you say you were marched to the French lines every fortnight to try to get you to join, who gave you the orders? The gentleman and interpreter in charge of the three companies. There were three companies, and we were marched up, thirty at a time, in charge of those who joined the Irish Brigade, and a German officer. When you were marched to the French lines, who asked you this question? Quinless and Keogh. And that, you say, lasted as long as you were there? Yes, till I came home. | Reexaminado por el ABOGADO GENERAL Cuando dice que estaba marchó a las líneas francesas cada quince días para intentar que te unieras, quien te dio las ordenes? El caballero e intérprete a cargo de Las tres empresas. Había tres compañías y marchamos arriba, treinta a la vez, a cargo de los que se unieron a la Brigada irlandesa, y un oficial alemán. Cuando te llevaron a las líneas francesas, ¿quién te preguntó esto? ¿pregunta? Quindón y Keogh. ¿Y eso, dices, duró tanto como estuviste allí? Si hasta que llegue casa.
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DAMBL O'BRIEN, examined by Mr. TRAVERS HUMPHREYS I was formerly a private in the Leinster regiment. I joined that regiment in 1912, and about a month afterwards I was transferred to the 19th Hussars. I went with that regiment to France. I was wounded in the retreat from Mons, and I was taken prisoner while I was in hospital. I was first taken to a place called Doberitz, where there were about a couple of hundred prisoners from Irish regiments. From there I went to Limburg along with the other Irish prisoners that I have mentioned. We arrived at Limburg about 15th December, 1914. When we got there there were only about 50 other men in the camp, but afterwards there were about 2500 Irish prisoners of war. Besides the prisoners of war, do you remember any one else coming there, anybody who made a speech? Yes. Who? Casement. I recognise the prisoner as Casement. He spoke to all the men. I heard him make a speech for the first time about 19th February, 1915. I heard him say, " Now is the time for Irish- " men to fight against England; now is their opportunity for doing so; " join the Irish Brigade." He said he came to form an Irish Brigade, and he wanted all Irishmen to join the Irish Brigade and become guests of the German Army. He said that if they were successful in winning the war they would land the Irish Brigade along with the German Army in Ireland, and they would fight against England there. If Germany did not win the war, then they would be sent by the German Government to America with a guarantee of 5 and a situation. I do not remember anything else that he said. He said a lot I cannot remember all of it but what I have told is the substance of it. How did the men who were listening behave? They behaved all right till they began to find him out. They behaved all right for a quarter of an hour, and then they found out who he was, and they hissed him and booed him out of the camp. I saw one of the Munster Fusiliers actually push him. That Munster Fusilier got shifted out of the camp. Did you join the Irish Brigade? No; if I did I would not be here to-day. Did anything happen to the men who refused to join the Irish Brigade? Yes, we got punished; we got our rations cut down. I heard Sir Roger Casement speak only once, but I saw him in the camp several times. The time when he made the speech that I heard was the first time that I saw him. I saw him in the camp about twice after that. He was walking about on those occasions. I know about a dozen who joined the Irish Brigade; there were fifty-two all told who joined the Irish Brigade. The names of some who joined were Quinless, Royal Irish Regiment; Keogh, Royal Irish Regiment; O'Callaghan, Connaught Rangers; Bailey, Royal Irish Rifles; Cavanagh, Royal Irish Horse; O'Toole, Irish Guards. Shown exhibit No. 5 I recognise in that picture Quinless on the right ; then next to him Cavanagh; then a man whose name I do not know; then Bailey, O'Toole, and Keogh. I believe that the man at the end is an interpreter. I saw the men wearing the uniform in which they appear in the picture. The men who joined the Irish Brigade were sent away to Berlin. |
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The LORD CHIEF JUSTICE That they were sent away is all that the witness can say. Examination continued When they came back in the uniform did they stay with you and the other prisoners? No; they were kept separate by themselves. Shown exhibit No. 4, address headed " Irishmen " I saw a document like that in the barrack-room while I was in camp at Lim- burg. I first noticed it after Casement came and visited us. I read it. Whereabout in the barrack-room was it? They were sent round to each barrack -room, brought round by a German soldier to each barrack- room. I left Limburg in February of this year ; I came over here as an exchanged prisoner of war. |
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Cross-examined by Mr. SULLIVAN Can you tell me how long after you arrived in Limburg that the speech of Sir Roger Casement took place? About two months. Were you moving about the Irish camp? Yes. Did not you hear any other speech but one? That is all. Did you see him speaking in the camp prior to that? Yes. How often? I saw him once speaking, but I saw him in the camp afterwards. Do I understand you to say that besides this speech you have reported to us you saw him delivering another speech? No, I saw him in the camp. I did not pay any attention to him. You yourself never saw him delivering any speech except the one you listened to? That is all I saw. I suppose you cannot recollect everything he said? No. Did he first of all speak about the Irish Volunteer movement? No; he spoke about the Irish Brigade. Did not he mention the Irish Volunteers? He might have done. I did not hear him. I was not there at the beginning of it. Did you only listen to a small part of his speech? That is all, and went away. You only heard a small part of his speech? Yes. But in what you did hear did he speak of the Irish Brigade fighting in Ireland? Yes. Did he say the Irish Brigade would be used in Ireland only? In Ireland. Did he say they were to be transferred to Ireland when Germany had won the war? Yes. And if Germany failed to win the war they should go to America? To America, yes. Arrangements would be made to have them go to America. Did you speak to Sir Roger Casement at all yourself? No. You did not say anything to him? No. You simply remained in the camp, I gather, and said nothing and did nothing? No, because I could not do. When were your rations reduced? Just after Casement went away. Was that the end of February? About a week afterwards. Was it about the end of February? It was getting on close to the end of February. Have you not been speaking about the 19th February? Yes, the 19th February. How do you fix the date of the 19th February? Because I have good reason to. | Interrogado por el Sr. SULLIVAN ¿Puede decirme cuánto tiempo después llegaste a Limburg donde tuvo lugar el discurso de Sir Roger Casement? Unos dos meses. ¿Te mudaste por el campamento irlandés? Sí. ¿No escuchaste ningún otro discurso sino uno?Eso es todo. ¿Lo viste hablando en el campamento antes de eso? Sí. ¿Con qué frecuencia? Lo vi una vez hablando, pero lo vi en el campamento. después. ¿Entiendo que digas que además de este discurso has informado a nosotros lo viste pronunciar otro discurso?No, lo vi en el acampar. No le presté atención. Tú mismo nunca lo viste pronunciar ningún discurso excepto el escuchaste? Eso es todo lo que vi. ¿Supongo que no puedes recordar todo lo que dijo? No. ¿Primero habló sobre el movimiento voluntario irlandés? No; habló sobre la brigada irlandesa. ¿No mencionó a los voluntarios irlandeses? Él podría haberlo hecho. yo No lo escuché. No estaba allí al principio. ¿Escuchaste solo una pequeña parte de su discurso? Eso es todo y se fue. ¿Solo escuchaste una pequeña parte de su discurso? Sí. Pero en lo que oíste habló de la lucha de la Brigada irlandesa ¿En Irlanda? Sí. ¿Dijo que la Brigada irlandesa se usaría solo en Irlanda? En Irlanda. ¿Dijo que iban a ser transferidos a Irlanda cuando Alemania había ganado la guerra? Sí. ¿Y si Alemania no lograra ganar la guerra, deberían ir a América? A América, sí. Se harían arreglos para que se fueran a América. Tuviste hablar con Sir Roger Casement? No. ¿No le dijiste nada? No. Simplemente te quedaste en el campamento, deduzco, y no dijiste nada y ¿no hice nada? No, porque no pude hacerlo. ¿Cuándo se redujeron sus raciones? Justo después de que Casement se fuera. ¿Fue a finales de febrero? Alrededor de una semana después. ¿Fue a finales de febrero? Se estaba acercando a la final de febrero. ¿No has estado hablando del 19 de febrero? Sí el 19 de febrero. ¿Cómo se fija la fecha del 19 de febrero?Porque tengo buena razón para.
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By the LORD CHIEF JUSTICE You are asked how you fix it? Because my rations were cut down about a week afterwards. I shall never forget it. By Mr. SULLIVAN Your rations were cut down at the end of February? Yes, about the end of February. And you fix the 19th by reference to the date of the cutting down of your rations, which was at the end of February? Yes. That is why you say it was the 19th when you heard the speech. Were the rations cut down for every man in the camp? Every man. And was recruiting going on after Sir Roger Casement left? Yes. The recruiting for the Irish Brigade went on as usual? Yes. Although the rations had been cut down? Yes. For everybody? For everybody. In April was there a fresh cutting down of rations? Were the rations out down further in April? Yes. What reduction of rations was made at the end of February? I could not exactly tell you, but it was very small. | Por el SEÑOR JUSTICIA PRINCIPAL ¿Le preguntan cómo lo arregla? Porque mis raciones se redujeron aproximadamente una semana después. Nunca lo olvidaré. Por el Sr. SULLIVAN Sus raciones se redujeron al final de ¿Febrero? Sí, a finales de febrero. Y arreglas el 19 por referencia a la fecha del corte de tus raciones, que fue a finales de febrero?Sí. Por eso dices que fue el 19 cuando escuchaste el discurso. ¿Se redujeron las raciones para cada hombre en el campamento? Cada hombre. ¿Y continuaría el reclutamiento después de que Sir Roger Casement se fuera? Sí. ¿El reclutamiento para la Brigada irlandesa continuó como siempre? Sí. ¿Aunque las raciones habían sido reducidas? Sí. ¿Para todos? Para todos. ¿En abril hubo una nueva reducción de las raciones? Eran las raciones fuera más abajo en abril? Sí. ¿Qué reducción de raciones se hizo a finales de febrero? yo podría No te digo exactamente, pero era muy pequeño.
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By Mr. JUSTICE HORRIDGE What was it you say was very small?
The amount of bread. That is what we were living on, a piece of bread,
and what we were getting.
By Mr. SULLIVAN And in April was your ration further reduced by sub-
stituting mangolds for potatoes? Yes 1 .
Was that universal in the camp? Yes.
Did recruiting for the Irish Brigade still go on? Yes.
I think you mentioned in your evidence about 52 men? About 52
men joined the Irish Brigade.
Is that in the whole period of recruiting? Yes.
Up to the time you left Limburg Camp ? Yes.
Re-examined by the SOLICITOR-GENERAL To take you back for a
moment to the speech you heard Sir Roger Casement make, he said the
Irish Brigade were to fight in Ireland? Yes.
Did he say who were to take them to Ireland to fight? The German
Army.
Did he say against whom they were to fight? To fight against
England.
By the LORD CHIEF JUSTICE There is one question I want to put.
You told us there were some 2500 altogether in the Limburg Camp? Yes,
my lord.
Were any steps taken to find out whether the 2500 were Irish? They
were supposed to be Irish.
Why? It was supposed to be an Irish camp. They all came as
Irishmen to this camp.
Before they were removed to the camp was there anything done to
find out whether they were Irish? Yes.
What? You had to put your name down, and where you were born,
and your religion.
Were there any but Irish regiments there? Yes, mixed English,
Scotch, and Irish.
At Limburg? Oh, no, at the various camps before we went to Limburg.
There were English, Scotch, and Irish at the various camps. When
you went to Limburg what regiments were there? They were all mixed
English, Irish, and Scotch but they were all supposed to be Irish.
They were mixed regiments, not only Irish regiments? All regiments.
You say they were all supposed to be Irish. What do you mean by
that? It was supposed to be Irishmen who went to Limburg Camp. It
was supposed to be a special camp just for Irishmen alone.
JOHN ROBINSON, examined by Mr. BRANSON I live at 45 Ross Street,
Bristol. I was a corporal in the Royal Army Medical Corps. I joined
the Army in June, 1906. At the outbreak of war I was stationed at
Dublin. I went to France on 19th August, 1914, attached to the 13th
Field Ambulance, and on 24th August, 1914, I was taken prisoner at
Thulin. I was wounded in the head, and also in the knee and in the shoulder.
I was taken to hospital at Recklinghausen, in Germany, and from there
I went to the prisoner-of-war camp at Sennelager. There were other
Irish prisoners there. No difference was made at the start between the
British prisoners who were Irishmen and the British prisoners who were
not, but a difference was made about three months afterwards, when the
Irish Brigade was formed. The Irish prisoners were all taken away and
put in a hut by themselves. We Irish prisoners only had camp work to
do, while the rest had to work and carry and saw wood. I left Sennelager
Camp with the rest of the Irish prisoners some 200 or 300 on 23rd
December, and went to Limburg. The prisoners at Limburg were all
supposed to be Irish prisoners. I remember Sir Roger Casement coming
there after I had been there a little while. I recognise him as the
prisoner. I saw him in the camp.
What was he doing there? He was speaking with the Irish Brigade.
Speaking about ? The Irish Brigade. I did not catch all he
said, but I remember him saying, " Now is your chance to fight for Ireland
" and free it. I am very glad to see you here. This is the only chance
"you will have to fight for Ireland. Why do you not join the Irish
" Brigade? " Then he spoke about the treatment of Ireland in England.
That is all I remember.
What was the Irish Brigade to do? They were supposed to land in
Ireland and free Ireland.
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Por el Sr. JUSTICE HORRIDGE ¿Qué fue lo que usted dijo que era muy pequeño?
La cantidad de pan. En eso estábamos viviendo, un pedazo de pan,
y lo que estábamos obteniendo.
Por el Sr. SULLIVAN Y en abril su ración se redujo aún más por
coser las remolachas forrajeras para las papas?Sí 1.
¿Era eso universal en el campo? Sí.
¿Continuó el reclutamiento para la Brigada irlandesa? Sí.
¿Creo que mencionaste en tu evidencia sobre 52 hombres? Cerca de 52
los hombres se unieron a la brigada irlandesa.
¿Eso es en todo el período de reclutamiento?Sí.
¿Hasta el momento en que dejaste Limburg Camp? Sí.
Reexaminado por el SOLICITANTE GENERAL Para llevarlo de regreso por un
momento del discurso que escuchó hacer a Sir Roger Casement, dijo el
Brigada irlandesa iban a luchar en Irlanda? Sí.
¿Dijo quién los llevaría a Irlanda para luchar?El Alemán
Ejército.
¿Dijo contra quién iban a luchar? Luchar contra
Inglaterra.
Por el SEÑOR JUSTICIA PRINCIPAL Hay una pregunta que quiero hacer.
¿Nos dijiste que había unos 2500 en total en el campo de Limburgo? Sí,
mi señor.
¿Se tomaron medidas para averiguar si los 2500 eran irlandeses? Ellos
se suponía que eran irlandeses.
¿Por qué? Se suponía que era un campamento irlandés. Todos vinieron como
Irlandeses a este campamento.
Antes de que fueran trasladados al campamento, ¿se hizo algo para
averiguar si eran irlandeses? Sí.
¿Qué? Tuviste que poner tu nombre, y donde naciste,
y tu religion
¿Hubo allí menos regimientos irlandeses? Sí, inglés mixto
Escocés e irlandés.
En Limburg? Oh, no, en los diversos campamentos antes de ir a Limburgo.
Había ingleses, escoceses e irlandeses en los distintos campos. Cuando
fuiste a Limburgo, ¿qué regimientos estaban allí? Estaban todos mezclados
Inglés, irlandés y escocés, pero se suponía que todos eran irlandeses.
¿Eran regimientos mixtos, no solo regimientos irlandeses? Todos los regimientos.
Dices que se suponía que todos eran irlandeses. Que quieres decir con
¿ese? Se suponía que eran irlandeses los que iban al campo de Limburgo. Eso
se suponía que era un campamento especial solo para irlandeses.
JOHN ROBINSON, examinado por el Sr. BRANSON, vivo en 45 Ross Street,
Bristol Fui cabo en el Cuerpo Médico del Real Ejército. me uní
el ejército en junio de 1906. Al estallar la guerra me estacionaron en
Dublín. Fui a Francia el 19 de agosto de 1914, adjunto al 13
Ambulancia de campo, y el 24 de agosto de 1914, fui hecho prisionero en
Thulin Fui herido en la cabeza, y también en la rodilla y en el hombro.
Me llevaron al hospital de Recklinghausen, en Alemania, y desde allí
Fui al campo de prisioneros de guerra en Sennelager. Hubo otros
Prisioneros irlandeses allí. No se hizo ninguna diferencia al comienzo entre
Prisioneros británicos que eran irlandeses y prisioneros británicos que eran
no, pero se hizo una diferencia unos tres meses después, cuando el
Se formó la brigada irlandesa. Los prisioneros irlandeses fueron llevados y
poner en una choza por sí mismos. Nosotros los prisioneros irlandeses solo teníamos trabajo de campo para
hacer, mientras que el resto tenía que trabajar y transportar y aserrar madera. Me fui de Sennelager
Campamento con el resto de los prisioneros irlandeses unos 200 o 300 el 23
Diciembre, y fui a Limburg. Los prisioneros en Limburg eran todos
se supone que son prisioneros irlandeses.Recuerdo que sir Roger Casement vino
allí después de haber estado allí un rato. Lo reconozco como el
prisionero. Lo vi en el campamento.
¿Qué estaba haciendo allí? Estaba hablando con la brigada irlandesa.
Hablando de ? La brigada irlandesa. No atrapé todo lo que él
dijo, pero recuerdo que dijo: "Ahora es tu oportunidad de luchar por Irlanda
"y libéralo. Estoy muy contento de verte aquí. Esta es la única oportunidad
"Tendrás que luchar por Irlanda. ¿Por qué no te unes a los irlandeses?
"¿Brigada?" Luego habló sobre el tratamiento de Irlanda en Inglaterra.
Eso es todo lo que recuerdo.
¿Qué debía hacer la brigada irlandesa? Se suponía que aterrizarían en
Irlanda e Irlanda libre.
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By the LORD CHIEF JUSTICE Tell us what you heard him say not what they were supposed to do? That is about all I can remember at the present time. He said he was very glad to see so many Irishmen here, that now was our time to fight for Ireland and strike a blow, and he hoped we would all join the Irish Brigade. Examination continued Did he say with whom the Irish Brigade were going to fight? Fight against England. He said that if Germany had a victory on the sea they would land the Irish Brigade in Ireland, but if Germany did not win at sea then we were all to go to America. At the start there was no money mentioned, but at the end of the speech he said that we would all get 10 in money and be sent off to America. He did not say who was to give us the 10. How many people were listening to this? There were generally about forty or fifty, sometimes thirty. I heard him make speeches on four different occasions. About a week or so would elapse between the different occasions. What sort of reception did he get from those who were listening? Very poor ; he did not get a good reception. On one occasion he was struck, and on another occasion I eaw him get pushed. When he was struck he swung his umbrella round to keep the prisoners off him, and when he was pushed he walked out of the camp. There was no one with him at that time. A couple of German sentries came on the scene the second time I saw Casement there, and he went out of the camp with them. On that occasion the crowd that was round was getting a bit excited, and they did not want to listen to him. Shown exhibit No. 4, address headed " Irishmen " I saw that in the Limburg Camp. It was a form very much like this ; the same size, only what I saw was typewritten. It was in the centre of the camp when I saw it. A fellow had it in his hand, and there was a crowd round reading it. There was a kind of buff form handed round with questions on. Who gave you these forms? The Germans. I got one, and I filled up the answers to the questions. Every man had to fill up the document and hand it back to the Germans. I handed my document back, and I have not seen it since. I stayed at Limburg for five months, and I was shifted from there to Giessen. I did not join the Irish Brigade. There were about 150 other prisoners taken to Giessen. None of them had agreed to join the Irish Brigade. As far as I can remember, between fifty and sixty at Limburg joined the Irish Brigade. I did not see any of those persons at Giessen. I remember the names of one or two of the prisoners who joined the Irish Brigade Bailey, Keogh, Quinless, and O'Toole. I saw some of the persons who joined the Irish Brigade in uniform a green uniform with a little harp on the collar and a harp on the cap. I had never seen the uniform before. On 8th October I was exchanged and came back to this country. | Por el SEÑOR JUSTICIA PRINCIPAL Cuéntanos lo que le oíste decir no ¿Qué se suponía que debían hacer? Eso es todo lo que puedo recordar en el tiempo presente. Dijo que estaba muy contento de ver a tantos irlandeses aquí, ese era nuestro momento de luchar por Irlanda y asestar un golpe, y esperaba todos nos uniríamos a la brigada irlandesa. El examen continuó ¿Dijo con quién estaban la Brigada irlandesa va a pelear? Lucha contra Inglaterra. Dijo que si Alemania tuviera un victoria en el mar aterrizarían la brigada irlandesa en Irlanda, pero si Alemania no ganó en el mar, entonces todos íbamos a ir a América. En el Al principio no se mencionó dinero, pero al final del discurso dijo que todos obtendríamos 10 en dinero y nos enviarían a Estados Unidos. Él hizo No digamos quién nos iba a dar el 10. ¿Cuántas personas estaban escuchando esto?En general hubo alrededor cuarenta o cincuenta, a veces treinta. Lo escuché pronunciar discursos en cuatro diferentes ocasiones Aproximadamente una semana más o menos pasaría entre los diferentes ocasiones. ¿Qué tipo de recepción recibió de los que estaban escuchando? Muy pobre ; No tuvo una buena recepción. En una ocasión fue golpeó, y en otra ocasión lo vi empujarse.Cuando él era golpeó, giró su paraguas para mantener a los prisioneros lejos de él, y cuando lo empujaron, salió del campamento.No había nadie con él en ese momento. Un par de centinelas alemanes entraron en escena La segunda vez que vi a Casement allí, salió del campamento con ellos. En esa ocasión, la multitud que estaba rondando estaba un poco emocionada, y No querían escucharlo. Muestra exhibida No. 4, dirección encabezada "Irlandeses" Lo vi en el campo de Limburgo.Fue una forma muy así mucho; del mismo tamaño, solo lo que vi estaba escrito a máquina. Era en el centro del campamento cuando lo vi. Un tipo lo tenía en la mano, y había una multitud rondando leyéndolo.Había una especie de forma de beneficio entregado con preguntas sobre. ¿Quién te dio estos formularios? Los alemanes.Tengo uno y me llené Las respuestas a las preguntas. Cada hombre tuvo que llenar el documento y devolvérselo a los alemanes. Le devolví mi documento y No lo he visto desde entonces. Me quedé en Limburgo durante cinco meses y estuve cambió de allí a Giessen. No me uní a la brigada irlandesa. Ahí fueron otros 150 prisioneros llevados a Giessen. Ninguno de ellos tenía acordó unirse a la Brigada irlandesa. Por lo que puedo recordar, entre cincuenta y sesenta en Limburgo se unieron a la Brigada irlandesa. No vi ninguno de esas personas en Giessen. Recuerdo los nombres de uno o dos de los prisioneros que se unieron a la brigada irlandesa Bailey, Keogh, Quínder y O'Toole Vi a algunas de las personas que se unieron a la Brigada irlandesa en Uniforme un uniforme verde con un poco de arpa en el cuello y un arpa en la tapa. Nunca había visto el uniforme antes.El 8 de octubre estaba intercambiado y regresó a este país. |
Cross-examined by Mr. SULLIVAN How long was Sir Roger Casement speaking on the occasions that you have detailed to us, the first time you heard him speak, for instance? About a quarter of an hour to twenty minutes. Can you remember all he said? No. Or do you only remember bits? A few words or so. He wanted you to join an Irish Brigade? Yes. Did he say that, the Irish Brigade was to fight for Ireland? Yes. Did he say it was to fight in Ireland? Yes. And did he address you ? Did he say it was to go to Ireland when the Germans had won the war? No, he said if Germany had a victory on sea. Did he speak about Germany winning the war? Yes. What did he say about Germany winning the war? He always said that Germany would win, but we contradicted him, and said they would not. You have done your best to stop it, anyhow? I have done a little bit. I suggest to you that he represented when Germany had won the war that the Irish Brigade was to go to Ireland unless there was a victory at sea meantime. Was that what he said? I cannot remember that. I remember him saying if Germany had a victory on sea he would land us in Ireland. But there is no doubt it was in Ireland you were to serve? Oh, yes, at that time. Did he speak of the sources of payment? Yes, there was 10 men- tioned. Was the 10 mentioned owing to somebody asking what was to happen if Germany never won the war? Of course, I could not say that. I was not there always. What had happened immediately before the 10 was mentioned? He was just speaking about the Irish Brigade, and somebody asked him about money, and he said we would get 10. Were they to get 10 in any event, or were they to get 10 to go to America with if Germany failed to win? 10 if they joined the Irish Brigade. In any event? Yes Are you sure of that? Yes. Is it true that he always spoke on the assumption that Germany was going to win the war? Yes. And his idea was, in that event he wanted to free Ireland. Did he say that 1 Yes. Did one or two men ask him what would happen supposing Germany did not win the war? Yes. Was it then that the statement was made about the 10? In or about that time. And about sending them to America? Yes. The 10 was to join the brigade. Was not the date of this speech about a fortnight after you got there? Yes, about a fortnight. Did not you get there about the 23rd December? Yes A number of Irishmen reached the place at the same time, about the 23rd December? Yes. In the commencement of his speech did he say there was no money in it? Yes, at the start. At the start he said there was no money in it, and you tell me that although he told you there was no money in it he also told you in the same speech you would get 10 merely for joining? Yes. That was the second time I heard him speaking. Was it the second time that the 10 came in? Yes. Are you sure of that? Yes. Was not the 10 to take you to America? I never heard about that. You are a native of Belfast, I think? Yes. How long have you been with the colours? About ten years. I suppose from time to time you have been back in Belfast? Yes. ave you spent any time in Belfast during the last five years? Yes. Any long period of time? Have you been there for any considerable time? Yes. During the last five years? Yes. You have spent long periods of time there. Did you hear Sir Roger Casement in his speech refer to the formation of the Irish Volunteers in Ireland? I never heard him speak about it. At any time? I never heard him speak about it. You never heard him at any time describe himself as the organiser of the Irish Volunteers in Ireland ? No, I do not think I ever heard that. Are you sure about that, or is it that your memory fails you? No, I never heard him speaking about that. During the time you were in Belfast during the last five years had you seen bodies of armed Volunteers going about Belfast? Yes. Nobody interfering with them? No. When first did you notice these armed Volunteers in Belfast? Do you mean the National Volunteers or the Ulster Volunteers ? Were not there both sets? Yes. The Ulster Volunteers were formed first, were they not? Yes. And the National Volunteers were formed later? Yes. To resist, the Ulster Volunteers ? Yes. Did you attend any of the meetings that were held in Belfast in connection with the armed Volunteer movement on either side? No. Was there great excitement in Belfast about the meetings that were held? Not very often. Did you read any of the reports that were circulated about the forma- tion of those bodies? No. You read none ? No. When did you leave Belfast prior to the war? The 5th August, 1914. You practically joined from Belfast? Yes. Had you been in civil employment? Yes. I did not appreciate that, I beg your pardon. Up to the moment you left Belfast were there bodies openly parading Belfast without objec- tion from anybody? I could not tell; I do not know much about the Volunteers. You could see armed men marching about, not soldiers or policemen? I have seen armed men Marching about? Yes. | Interrogados por el Sr. SULLIVAN ¿Cuánto tiempo estuvo Sir Roger Casement? hablando en las ocasiones que nos ha detallado, la primera vez que ¿Lo escuchó hablar, por ejemplo? Alrededor de un cuarto de hora a veinte minutos. ¿Puedes recordar todo lo que dijo? No. ¿O solo recuerdas partes? Unas pocas palabras más o menos. ¿Quería que te unieras a una brigada irlandesa?Sí. ¿Dijo que la brigada irlandesa iba a luchar por Irlanda? Sí. ¿Dijo que era para pelear en Irlanda? Sí. ¿Y se dirigió a ti? ¿Dijo que era ir a Irlanda cuando el Los alemanes habían ganado la guerra? No, dijo que si Alemania tenía una victoria en el mar. ¿Habló sobre Alemania ganando la guerra? Sí. ¿Qué dijo sobre Alemania ganando la guerra?Siempre decía que Alemania ganaría, pero lo contradecimos y dijimos que no lo harían ¿Has hecho todo lo posible para detenerlo? He hecho un poquito. Te sugiero que representara cuando Alemania había ganado la guerra. que la Brigada irlandesa iría a Irlanda a menos que hubiera una victoria en el mar mientras tanto. ¿Fue eso lo que dijo?No puedo recordar eso. yo recordarlo diciendo que si Alemania tuviera una victoria en el mar nos aterrizaría en Irlanda. ¿Pero no hay duda de que fue en Irlanda a quien servirías? Oh si, En ese tiempo. ¿Habló de las fuentes de pago? Sí, había 10 hombres. mencionado. ¿Se mencionaron los 10 debido a que alguien preguntó qué iba a pasar? si Alemania nunca ganó la guerra? Por supuesto, no podría decir eso. yo era No siempre hay. ¿Qué había sucedido inmediatamente antes de que se mencionaran los 10? Estaba hablando de la brigada irlandesa, y alguien le preguntó sobre dinero, y dijo que obtendríamos 10. Si obtuvieran 10 en cualquier caso, o si obtuvieran 10 para ir a América con si Alemania no pudo ganar? 10 si se unieron a los irlandeses Brigada. ¿En cualquier evento? Sí ¿Estas seguro de eso? Sí. ¿Es cierto que siempre habló bajo la suposición de que Alemania era vas a ganar la guerra? Sí. Y su idea era que, en ese caso, quería liberar a Irlanda. Él hizo diga que 1 sí. ¿Uno o dos hombres le preguntaron qué pasaría suponiendo que Alemania no ganó la guerra? Sí. ¿Fue entonces cuando se hizo la declaración sobre los 10? En o sobre ese tiempo ¿Y sobre enviarlos a América? Sí. Los 10 debían unirse la brigada ¿No era la fecha de este discurso aproximadamente quince días después de que llegaste allí? Sí, alrededor de una quincena. ¿No llegaste allí el 23 de diciembre? Sí. Varios irlandeses llegaron al lugar al mismo tiempo, sobre el 23 de diciembre? Sí. Al comienzo de su discurso dijo que no había dinero ¿en eso? Si, al inicio. Al principio dijo que no había dinero, y me dices que aunque él te dijo que no había dinero en él, también te dijo en el mismo discurso que obtendría 10 simplemente por unirse? Sí. Eso fue el La segunda vez lo escuché hablar ¿Era la segunda vez que entraban los 10? Sí. ¿Estas seguro de eso? Sí. ¿No fueron los 10 para llevarte a América?Nunca escuché sobre eso. Eres nativo de Belfast, creo? Sí. ¿Cuaanto tiempo llevas con los colores? Unos diez años. Supongo que de vez en cuando has vuelto a Belfast. Sí. ¿Has pasado algún tiempo en Belfast durante los últimos cinco años? Sí. ¿Algún período largo de tiempo? ¿Has estado allí por algún considerable ¿hora? Sí. ¿Durante los últimos cinco años? Sí. Has pasado largos períodos de tiempo allí.¿Escuchaste a Sir Roger? El discurso en su discurso se refiere a la formación de los voluntarios irlandeses en ¿Irlanda? Nunca lo escuché hablar sobre eso. ¿En cualquier momento? Nunca lo escuché hablar sobre eso. Nunca lo escuchaste en ningún momento describirse a sí mismo como el organizador de los voluntarios irlandeses en Irlanda? No, no creo haber escuchado eso nunca. ¿Estás seguro de eso o es que tu memoria te falla? No, Nunca lo escuché hablar sobre eso. Durante el tiempo que estuvo en Belfast durante los últimos cinco años tuvo ¿Has visto cuerpos de voluntarios armados yendo por Belfast? Sí. ¿Nadie interfiriendo con ellos? No. ¿Cuándo notó por primera vez a estos voluntarios armados en Belfast? Vos si ¿Se refieren a los Voluntarios Nacionales o los Voluntarios del Ulster? ¿No había ambos conjuntos? Sí. Los Voluntarios del Ulster se formaron primero, ¿no? Sí. ¿Y los Voluntarios Nacionales se formaron más tarde? Sí. Para resistir, los voluntarios del Ulster? Sí. ¿Asistió a alguna de las reuniones que se celebraron en Belfast en conexión con el movimiento voluntario armado en ambos lados? No ¿Hubo gran entusiasmo en Belfast por las reuniones que fueron ¿retenida? No muy seguido. ¿Leyó alguno de los informes que se distribuyeron sobre la forma- ción de esos cuerpos? No ¿No lees ninguno? No. ¿Cuándo te fuiste de Belfast antes de la guerra? El 5 de agosto de 1914. ¿Prácticamente te uniste desde Belfast? Sí. ¿Has estado en un empleo civil? Sí. No aprecié eso, le ruego me disculpe. Hasta el momento te fuiste de Belfast donde había cuerpos que desfilaban abiertamente en Belfast sin objeciones ción de alguien? No podria decir; No se mucho sobre el Voluntarios ¿Podías ver hombres armados marchando, no soldados o policías? He visto hombres armados. ¿Marchando sobre? Sí.
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Re-examined by the SOLICITOR- GENERAL You told the jury that you heard Sir Roger Casement say that if Germany won a victory at sea the Irish Brigade would be landed in Ireland? Yes. Did he say who would send the Irish Brigade to Ireland? Germany would send us to Ireland. Did he say what they were to do when they got there? Free Ireland. Did he say whether they would have any fighting to do? He did not go into that; he isaid it was to free Ireland when they got there. Did he say from whom they were to free Ireland? From England. | Reexaminado por el SOLICITANTE GENERAL Le dijiste al jurado que escuchó a sir Roger Casement decir que si Alemania ganaba una victoria en el mar ¿La brigada irlandesa desembarcaría en Irlanda? Sí. ¿Dijo quién enviaría a la Brigada irlandesa a Irlanda? Alemania nos enviaría a Irlanda ¿Dijo lo que iban a hacer cuando llegaron allí?Irlanda libre. ¿Dijo si tendrían alguna pelea que hacer? No lo hizo entrar en eso; Dijo que era para liberar a Irlanda cuando llegaron allí. ¿Dijo de quién iban a liberar Irlanda? De Inglaterra.
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By the LORD CHEEP JUSTICE Have you got exhibit No. 4 before you? Yes. Can you tell us did you ever see that document in the camp when Sir Roger Casement was there? Yes. Was he actually in the camp? Yes. Do you remember when that was? In or about May. What was being done with it? There were about a dozen copies of it issued round to the men ; there were two or three posted on the doors of the barrack-room. When you say twelve were issued to the men can you tell us were the men reading them? Yes. Several of them ? Yes ; it was issued round to groups ; several would get in groups, and one man would read it. You said in answer to the Solicitor-General Germany would send the Irish Brigade to free Ireland from England when they got there? Yes. Who do you mean by " they," when " they " got there? The Irish Brigade. | Por el lord JUSTICIA JEFE ¿Tienes la exhibición No. 4 antes que tú?
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WILLIAM EGAN, examined by the SOLICITOR-GENERAL I live at 14= Barrett Street, Dublin. I was born in Kingstown, and I went to school in Dublin. I joined the Royal Irish Rifles in September, 1904. There was a man named Bailey in the same regiment whom I knew ; I had gone to school with him. When the war broke out I went with my regiment to France in August, 1914. I was wounded at Neuve Chapelle in October, 1914, and I was taken prisoner by the Germans. I was taken to Cologne, where I was put into the hospital, Lazaretto, No. 6. I remained in Cologne close on three months, and then I was sent to Limburg. I got there about 3rd February, 1915. I saw Bailey there. Did you recognise him at once and speak to him? Yes, he spoke to me. On 19th February I was passing the camp at the time I was in a delicate state of health and I saw a man speaking to three prisoners. He was a tall man, dressed in dark clothing, with a long coat, a soft hat, and he carried an umbrella on the left arm. I passed on and did not take any further notice. I am doubtful whether I should know the man again. After that I had two pamphlets given to me. One of them was given me by a German officer. I think it was called " How to Free Ireland/' but I am not sure. I also received a book along with the pamphlet. It was given to us by a German sergeant. I only read a small part of the book; it was concerning '98. The title was "Crimes Against Ireland " and How to Free It," and it was edited by Sir Roger Casement. I did not bring it away with me from the camp as I was forbidden. Shown exhibit No. 4 that is what I have called the pamphlet. It was given to me by a German officer; I tore it up. Besides that document I was given another form by a German sergeant. I left it on the table. There were many of them in the room at the time, but I was not allowed to bring one away. What were you to do with that form? We were to answer the questions that were on it. I filled in the answers and gave the form back to the sergeant. While I was there a number of the prisoners joined the Irish Brigade, among them being Bailey, Scanlan, and Greer, all from my regi- ment, the Royal Irish Rifles. Being shown the photograph, exhibit 5 I recognise five out of the six men in that photograph. The first man on the right is Quinless, the third man is O'Callaghan, the centre man is Bailey, the sixth man is Keogh, and the seventh man is a German interpreter of the name of Metz. I saw some of the men who joined the brigade after they joined it. Their uniform appeared to me to be of a silver-grey with green facings, and there was, I am not sure, whether it was a harp or a shamrock on the collar, but a crown without the harp in the cap. I had not seen this uniform before till I saw it on the Irish Brigade. I only saw two men wearing a belt Bailey and Quinless. I saw them coming from the town of Limburg ; they passed me on the road ; they both had belts and side-arms of a German pattern on. I did not join the Irish Brigade. About fifty-two men joined the brigade. After this we seemed to get treated worse because we would not join the brigade. The food was cut; they made our allowance in the food less than it really was. I arrived in England on 7th February this year ; I was exchanged. When I left Germany Bailey was at Zossen. He used to come to Limburg for recruiting purposes. I did not speak to Bailey after he joined the brigade. I saw him at the Castle at Dublin on 6th May, 1916. I recog- nised him there, and he seemed to know me | WILLIAM EGAN, examinado por el SOLICITADOR GENERAL Vivo a los 14 =
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Cross-examined by Mr. SULLIVAN You lived in Dublin when the war broke out? Yes. Were you in civil employment? I was. Living there in Dublin? Yes. Where were you engaged ; what business were you in ? I was a porter in the City of Dublin Steam Packet Company. Were you in Dublin on the Sunday before the war broke out? I was. Could you remember where you were on that Sunday? I was at Kingstown. Were you in the city at all during the afternoon? Not to my know- ledge. You were out at Kingstown? Yes. The Sunday I am referring to is the Sunday of the Hogue affair ; do you remember the Sunday that the goods were landed at Hogue? I do not remember. Were you not in the city that day? No. The war broke out a few days afterwards? Yes. Even prior to that incident, did you see Volunteers armed and drilling in Dublin? No. Did you see them drilling? No. You never saw the Volunteers drilling in Dublin? No. Or marching through the city? No. Did you ever see them at all until you left Dublin? I was not interested in them. Without being interested in them, if a body of armed men, who were neither policemen nor soldiers, passed you in the street would you notice them? I would. Did such bodies pass you in the streets in Dublin ? No. Are you sure of that? Yes. You never saw them? No. With regard to the recruiting that you say was going on in Limburg, when were your rations reduced? They were reduced in February. At the end of February ? About the middle of February. Some time in February at all events? Yes. What rations were reduced? The bread rations. Was it reduced for every one in the camp? It was. Was there a further reduction of rations in April ? Yes. For every one in the camp? Yes. There was no more reduction of rations after April? No, not that I know of. Was not recruiting going on for the Irish Brigade after that? It was going on all through my time there. So that it was not only the men who did not join, but every one in the camp had their rations reduced, had not they? The men who joined the brigade, their rations were not reduced. Were not they removed from the camp ? They were, to the top of the camp. They were removed to a camp of their own? Yes. Was it within the same lines ? Yes. But they were removed to the top of the camp? Yes. They had privileges that no one else had, you say? Yee. Better food? Yes And given new uniforms, apparently? Yes. |
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MICHAEL O'CONNOR, examined by Mr. BODKIN I am a corporal in the
Royal Irish Regiment. My home is in Wexford. I went with the British
Expeditionary Force in August, 1914, and I was wounded and taken
prisoner by the Germans on 20th October. After a little while I was
taken to Darmstadt, and then about the middle of December I went to
Limburg. When I first got to Limburg there were about 300 Irish
prisoners of war there. Shortly after they were joined by other 1600, who
came from Hamlin, Sennelager, and Munster, so that there would be about
2000 British prisoners who were Irishmen. I remember seeing Sir Roger
Casement at Limburg about the end of December, 1914. I heard him
addressing some men. He said, " Now is the time for to fight or strike
"a, blow for Ireland," and that England was nearly beaten. I should
think there were about seventy men listening to him. I was on the
outskirts of the crowd. I have told all that I heard him say. I saw him
on that later occasion, but I did not hear what he said. The people were
hissing and booing him down the lines 1 that day. He said that those who
hissed him were followers of Johnnie Redmond, the recruiting sergeant of
the British Army. A sergeant-major of the 4th Dragoon Guards called
Casement a traitor. That sergeant-major was sent to Giessen or some
other camp for punishment along with Corporal Robinson. These are the
only occasions on which I saw Sir Roger Casement at the camp. I left the
camp in the next autumn, in October. I saw two books at the camp.
One was entitled " Crimes Against Ireland," by Sir Roger Casement, and
the other was entitled " The King, the Kaiser f and Ireland." I could not
see any author's name to that last production. Shown exhibit No. 4,
address headed " Irishmen " I saw that in printed form in the camp. It
was not in typewritten form. I could not tell how it came to be amongst
the men in the camp, but I know the books 1 and the papers, The Con-
tinental Times and The Gaelic American, were distributed. I saw the
document which is similar to exhibit No. 4 shortly after getting to the
camp. I could not tell the exact date, but it was long after Sir Roger
Casement addressed the first meeting. I could not say whether it was
before or after he addressed the second meeting. I left Limburg in
October, 1915, and I came home as an exchanged prisoner of war. I saw
Bailey in Limburg Camp on a couple of occasions, and I also saw him in
Dublin when I got back.
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